28 декабря 2019 года состоялось интервью члена нашей международной исследовательской группы Star_Aztlan Кирилла Елистратова о проводимых нами исследованиях в популярном подкасте Клифа Даннинга (Cliff Dunning) “Earth Ancients”
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1. When did you first learn about these artifacts?
My father Oleg Elistratov has always been intrigued by the mysteries of ancient worlds. And for many years, he studied and researched different ancient civilizations including many pre-columbian cultures. About 5 years ago, he stumbled upon a couple of very peculiar Mexican artifacts that had depictions of alien beings, a flying saucer, and strange unfamiliar symbols. Although he spent many years collecting and studying ancient artifacts, he has never seen anything like this before. He was very curious to find out if they were real or not. So, he was able to obtain two such artifacts for his collections. I remember the first when I saw them, I was absolutely stunned. They looked and felt authentic and ancient, but the explicit images of aliens, flying saucers, and alien writings were just too direct and almost unbelievable.
So, my father started researching online and found a YouTube video where an Austrian researcher, Klaus Dona, and the US physicist, Nassim Haramein, were talking about these Mexican artifacts at a conference in Germany. Then he found a video of Pablo Sanchez – a Mexican army doctor, who was talking about the same alien artifacts from Mexico. So, my father reached out and started connecting with different people and became very involved.
The next 5 years he spent deep diving into this topic and conducting extensive research. We had an opportunity to make two trips to the region in Mexico where they discover these artifacts and met local enthusiasts and collectors as well as do our own excavation where we ended up finding around 50 such artifacts. Today we have a core research team named “STAR (scientific team of research artifacts) _AZTLAN” composed of scientists, researchers, archeologists, and other people from different parts of the world who are passionate about studying these amazing artifacts.
Last year we launched a website www.staraztlan.org where we actively post the results of our work, my father with Russian archeologist Andrey Zhukov wrote a book called “Mexican Paleocontact – flying machines of ancient extraterrestrials” which is now available on Amazon and was published in two languages, Russian and English. So, I am proud to say that we have now built a large body of research and produced compelling evidence that these artifacts are indeed real and that they carry a significant historical meaning. And I am truly excited to be on this program and have an opportunity to talk about these astonishing artifacts to your audience, Cliff. Thank you!
2. Where in Mexico are the sites located?
First, I want to note that we have identified a total of 11 Mexican states where different alien-themed artifacts have been discovered. (district of Mexico City. Nine states cover the whole territory of Central Mexico from the Pacific coast to the coast of the Gulf of Mexico. The last state, Quintana Roo, is situated in the south-east of the Yucatán Peninsula, i.e., more than 1,000 km away from the main discovery area in Michoacán, Puebla, Tabasco, and Veracruz).
But the unique artifacts that have been our main focus of research and the ones we are talking about here comes from the El Toro Hills located north-east of a small town Ojuelos, in the Mexican State of Jalisco. And This is the area where these particular artifacts have been discovered.
3. What is unique about the designs of the artifacts?
Indeed, The El Toro artifacts are very unique in many different aspects such as the imagery, their artistic expression, craftsmanship and the diversity of objects that are there.
In general, the range of alien-themed objects made of different types of stones is quite extensive but we can classify them in 9 main broad categories: (1) are sculptures of various shapes and sizes (from tiny grain size figurines of aliens to medium size figures, to larger up to 2 feet alien heads (2) different types of alien masks many of them have dual faces clearly representing different alien races. In general, we see three main types of extraterrestrials First you have your typical short-statued grey alien with elongated head and almond-shaped eyes- an image that we are all familiar with.
Then we have a reptilian, and lastly we have a taller more humans-like extraterrestrial also with almond shaped eyes but with more human facial features. 3) ritual knives of different shapes and sizes; (4) an incredible amount of jewelry pieces like pendants and rings (5) flying saucers and different kinds of other ships made out of stone (6) smoking pipes; (7) various sizes and shapes of engraved stones as well as what looks like fragments of caves inner walls (8) stone Aztec-type calendars with alien faces. And the last and certainly the most notable type of artifacts are black or dark grey stone tablets with elaborate engraved and embossed images and inscriptions. Many of these tablets are compound objects meaning that they consist of several parts connecting with each other. Even just by looking at them, you can tell that these are special objects and they stand far apart from other artifacts in the way they are made and have more complex images. For instance, we see some Egyptian hieroglyphs including ankh, the eye of rha, scarab beetles as well as Egyptian god Anubis (Egyptian god of death and afterlife). We see a lot of writing on them some even almost completely covered in scriptures from all sides even one the boarders. Our hypothesis is that these artifacts what we call “stone books” were just like books meant to containing specific knowledge and message.
In regards to images on all of these artifacts. Although they very to a considerable degree we can easily identify a few specific themes.
1. Images of aliens as I noted earlier, three different types of alien species. For syntactic human-like aliens are typically portrayed in space suits or wearing an elaborate headgear, and almost noble type of clothing where a little grey alien is usually not clothed.
2. Images depicting a planetary catastrophe- images of an asteroid hitting a planet, a planet exploding or a cracked planet, which all explicitly suggest a destruction of a planet.
3. Different types of spacecrafts including flying saucers, shuttle-like spacecrafts with what appears to be jet propulsion engines, round spheres, and a few other variations.
4.Planetary systems – a majority of artifacts have images of planets of different diameters shown individually or arranged in a row of three to seven planets. And the most frequently image is a Saturn-like planet with its distinctive ring.
5.Images of what looks like a spirit, which is probably the most common theme in El Toro artifacts. The “spirit” flies out of various objects including a planet, a flying saucer, some type of a device and, and also an alien being.
6. An offering of an alien infant. Where an extraterrestrial most commonly the taller human-like alien is holding an alien infant up toward the sky. Of course there are different variations of this theme.
7. A human woman giving birth to an extraterrestrial child.
8. Images of a flying saucer shooting out luminous energy from the bottom down towards an object. The object is either a body of a dead alien lying horizontally, the body of an “angel”, or the body of a newly born extraterrestrial infant.
9. Lastly, which is the most unique attribute of El Toro artifacts, are inscriptions of an unknown writing system that are present on the majority of these artifacts. The writings resemble hieroglyphs. Linguistics experts we consulted with were not able to find any analogs in either the currently known ancient writing systems or artificial crypto codes.
4. What is the history of the area – and the interactions with off-world (ET) beings
We believe that the El Toro hill served as a center of interaction between representatives of an extraterrestrial race and ancient people of this region for a prolonged period of time. What’s interesting is that according to geologists this whole area was covered by water of an ancient lake and the El Toro hill was just an island. This information and other evidence correlates with Aztecs description of their ancestral birthplace Aztlan. And Local Aztlan enthusiasts believe that this place could have been the legendary Aztlan.
Another interesting observation is that when we visited this area many locals told us about frequent UFO sightings. So it appears that today this area still remains to be an active UFO activity zone.
5. Are there any ruins from these people?
Because this area was presumably under water there are no significant ancient ruins around the el Toro complex. However, there are some ruins on the el Toto hill itself including the remains of ancient Indian settlements, remains of a temple, roads, as well as cave drawings.
6. Was there any ET documents left to the local inhabitants?
We are not aware of such documents, but the locals have been discovering these artifacts for the past 50 years, which they’ve been keeping in their private family collections for years. We viewed several such collections when we visited. Some time ago, locals gifted artifacts to a small history museum in Ojuelos where they were displayed. But today this museum is closed.
7. What does INAH have to say about these artifacts? Have the Mexican government been involved?
Our friend and colleague Dr. Pablo Sanchez who is the most prominent local figure studying these artifacts approached Mexican authorities. The officials kept silent for a long time until July of 2014 when Mexican National Institute of Anthropology and History finally issued a formal opinion. They stated that there were no important historical sites on El Toro. The artifacts are not related to any known ancient Mesoamerican civilizations and are basically souvenirs made by local craftsmen in order to attract tourists. There were many other attempts to invite Mexican archeologists to visit the site and inspect the artifacts themselves but they all denied our invitation form the fear of losing their jobs. What’s interesting is that the local people in Ojuelos including the current and former mayor as well as other governmental official of that town accept that these artifacts are real and that aliens do exist.
8. What is the general perception of the archaeology community to these artifacts
The position of the worlds archeological community does not differ from the view of the INAH. But, we completely understand their position. If they authenticate at least one of these artifacts, they would have to accept that aliens exist, which would completely change the whole way the scientific community views world history. And I don’t think our world including in the scientific community, governments and the general public is not ready for this kind of truth. But despite this situation, El Toro artifacts caught the attention of prominent figures in the alternative science community. For example, The History channel’s forensic geologists Scott Walter did an episode on El Toro artifacts (with Mark Russel) in one of his episodes of America Unearthed.
9. Paleo infers extreme age. What are the ages of these artifacts?
Yes, that’s correct. What is very unique about El Toro artifacts is that many of them are made of different stone parts that are glued together. For instance, in an alien mask the almond shaped eyes would be made from different stones and they would be glued to the mask. Because glue can be an organic matter we can test the age using a well known and widely used by scientists radiocarbon test to date the organic material. We’ve had several radiocarbon tests conducted at the top independent labs in the US and Germany on glue samples collected from different El Toro artifacts. All the tests resulted in the age between 7,000 – 9,000 years. Last time we were in Mexico, we also excavated a few ceramic artifacts, which we tested with a thermoluminescence (TL analysis). This method determines the time of firing, therefore, directly assessing the item’s age which was around 3,000 years old.
10. Artifacts claiming to be from El Toro and other locations in Mexico have flooded the market. How can we tell which are authentic and fakes?
Yes, that’s correct there are fakes on the market. For us, in order to validate and advance our own research, it is absolutely need to address the existence of fake artifacts. My father has spent a considerable amount of time on this issue, developing ways to authenticate artifacts and spot and debunk fakes.
Today, we employ different methods to distinguish the two. First, is the radiocarbon analysis, which I’ve already described. Second, using digital microscopes to look at grooves of carved images. The groves of authentic artifacts and modern reproductions differ significantly in the technique they are executed and the tracks that the tool used to cut the stone leaves. For instance, we are well aware that modern fakes are made with a dental drill and we essentially know what it looks under the microscope.
Another method is to look at patina. Authentic stone artifacts that date thousands of years ago develop naturally occurring patina over time. We look at patina to see if it runs over a groove or if the groove cuts through it. If it’s the latter, then we know that the image was not engraved thousand of years ago.
Another method is to look at artistic and stylistic differences between the real and fake artifacts, which surprisingly are quite apparent. During the two visits to that region, we excavated around 50 artifacts from different sites in El Toro. We have viewed and documented thousands of artifacts in local private collections. As a result, we now have a large catalog of authentic artifacts as well as known fakes that we can use for a side-by-side analysis to anything that we see enter the market.
So, we have a variety of tools in our arsenal to determine what’s real and what’s not and to combat fake artifacts.
11. If these ET’s flew in space craft (technology beyond our own) why did they create such crude artifacts?
We think that these artifacts were not made by aliens, although we are not certain yet. It’s likely that they were made by people, possibly, priests or shamans, that were in close contact with the extraterrestrial visitors and they probably used advanced technology to cut the stone. Why they chose stones. Stones have a much longer shelf life than other material on earth and they are abundant. If they wanted to preserve this piece of history and pass on the knowledge to future generations, it is logical that used stones to do that.
There are a lot of theories about extraterrestrial influence on ancient civilizations. We also believe that the interaction helped shaped our civilizations.